Hello

[comandanta]

In the infoshop I work in (Spartacus Books, in Vancouver) we have a small section for books about spirituality, although the majority of us, as far as I know, are atheists. We also had an anarchochristian volunteer for a long time, and still carry the zine "The catholic worker". Liberation theology in South America was revolutionary, and in Spain we did have "red priests" ("curas rojos") that fought against Franco. Organized religions need not to be equated with a spiritual or trascendent feeling.

I'm an atheist, but as a scientist I recognize great shortcomings in current science and the current implementation of the scientific method, and I see how many people have a faith in science and scientists that is parallel to the faith in religion and priests that others have.

In general, I'm not a great supporter of flags. Let us act and discuss, and let us define ourselves through our actions and words, and not through misleading flags.

[jumala]

I very much agree with the fact that we should not work according to your "flags" or "labels". I don't need to know your views, I want to see what you do with them. All I see at the moment, however, are a handful of sad and lazy people posting on forums nobody reads. I know that God really is a great motivation for me to improve the world and myself. It does not only work from the inside of my brains, but God has a very concrete effect on me from the outside.

Oh and Riza, I will not proceed arguing with you, because you are exactly the type of people that don't care about learning the truth. You just keep bashing the same wall over and over again without making any progress; it won't serve you well, however. Eventually you will just become the grumpy old man that dies alone. That is if you do not change. You do not make any sense in your argument whatsoever - you just claimed that communism will not work because of human nature! Also, religion is not what produces happiness out of nowhere - it produces happiness out of our deeds and hope! It is what ultimately shapes our moral and ethical ideas. It motivates us to help and love.

Wake up and think rationally. Look at other humans around you and think for yourself and stop quoting some books you read some time ago. There is no proletariat in most of the western world. If you want to help then get your lazy butt off your chair and join the socialist party of Zimbabwe or Tanzania. Go somewhere where you could at least do something. Not that extremism is ever welcome anywhere.

Comandanta, what is your field of science?

[chuikov]

Jumala, if you haven't noticed, we are working on reviving this forum. We wouldn't be posting here unless we wanted to play this game.

If I understood you correctly, you claim god to be the absolute truth. I have a news flash for you, there is no absolute truth yet in the 21st centuary. That is objective thinking. There is no material evidence whatsoever of any spiritual things or mysterious "gods". Christianity is in a minority. Analysts have estimated that by 2050 over 50% of the Russian population, for example, are going to be muslims. If it continues like this, you won't have your precious beliefs in 200 years anymore.

[Riza Karabasan]

That artificial love and way to make yourselves important makes me disgusted.

Whatever, I am a nihilist, so I really don't think that I will live that long, but I am more than happy being alone, even though I am almost never alone. (even in bed)

And the way you argue, is what we call 'ad hominem'. I don't mind not arguing, I have respect to your way of spiritual socialism where it makes people equal, but apart from that I don't approve any kind of belief in a higher creature.

[chuikov]

Riza, let's remain civilized. Your approval isn't asked (no ones' is).

@ Jumala: Ota iisisti tämän kanssa. Meillä on ollut vähän ongelmia hänen kanssa myös.

[comandanta]

Apr 26, 2009 11:00:18 GMT jumala said:

Comandanta, what is your field of science?

Chemistry mainly, shifting focus to physics somewhat lately.

[Anatoliovich]

The Russian Orthodox is a beautiful.
I don't wanna see Russian Muslims!

(this topic exploded pretty fast )

I wouldn't suggest we really worry much about theism. In a sense when you think about it the idea of living as a "Christian Communist" or whatever only means you're being more pious than normal. I agree we shouldn't bring serious religion into eRepublik, but the more general Communists/Socialists the merrier.


Welcome to the boards guy!

[Eternal Winter]

"But it isn't the point. It has been shown for many, many times: atheism kills. First of all, atheists can't reproduce for crap. Second, atheism takes away the purpose in life creating immorality and disease of the mind. Atheists are angry and sad, which is why running away from responsibility feels like a solution to them. Don't be tricked, however. We are all creating the world around us. Christianity does not make you feel better, taken seriously it scared the crap out of you - it makes you work!"

Im sorry Jumala, you're cool and all, but are you trolling? Seriously? How old are you btw because you questioning the ability of an atheist to reproduce compared to that of a theist is beyond hilarious. Does God give theists amazing thingyes or mega sperm? I honestly don't know what to think.

Morality is created by those in power who sway the minds of society. If it were in our jurisdiction, we could say that rape is a socially acceptable act and as such, our community, state, etc would view rape as morally okay. Just because a book was written thousands of years ago mean that is the highest of laws and that all morality is based off of it. Also what do "you" consider disease of the mind?

The purpose of life is undefined from either side: theists or atheists. Atheists try to find emperical evidence to saturate fact where theists put hope in a higher being that what they think is true. Logic and reason should always override faith if you ever hope to you have a state or country free of fascism. Remember: Think for yourself, question authority.

Atheists run away from responsibility? I find that hilarious to think that atheists, who seek the real truth in any way possible, would "run away" from responsibility of life. If anything, theists do just as you have suggest atheists do but with the hope that what they are doing with their life will please their god. They run away from the responsibility of trying to find the real truth of the universe and settle for the God their mother and father were told to follow by their mothers and fathers.

I also laugh at how you think all atheists are sad and angry. You would have to judge that from an individual basis regardless of religion because mood and emotion are derived from synapses in the brain which control seritonin levels. An imbalance in these chemicals makes you feel depressed. Last time I checked, religion of any kind was not a permanent cure to depression or angst, not to mention I've met my fair share of Christians who are just as happy with god as they are without "Him".

"You do not make any sense in your argument whatsoever - you just claimed that communism will not work because of human nature!"

Yes, its called the human condition. Regardless if everyone in the entire world believed in God or a higher entity entirely, they would still do evil things. Its one of the many things that prevents communism from being a realistic form of government. Corruption is a constant in the equation of the world. You cannot hope that from any amount of brainwashing that it will go away and that everyone will do as you tell them to, although religions and cults have done some pretty amazing work in the field of brainwashing.

The reason why it is considered a utopia is because there would have to be an established religion to keep the communistic society under order. Kind of ironic how your argument stems from "love and faith" that God just naturally gives. Given this information, it is easy to see that religion is just an opiate for the masses, making control that much easier when people fear that they are going to burn in hell if they happen to do anything deemed "immoral" by their god.

You can either live in fear forever or you can use logic and reason to derive truth from this physical realm. Everything beyond emperical data is subjective and isn't worth an argument at all.

/rant

[Ne0]

Apr 29, 2009 6:13:30 GMT Eternal Winter said:

Morality is created by those in power who sway the minds of society.

Morality is distorted by those in power who sway the minds of society

Apr 29, 2009 6:13:30 GMT Eternal Winter said:

Just because a book was written thousands of years ago mean that is the highest of laws and that all morality is based off of it.

it means that book is a written record of Morality earlier than the books that came later and could be the original copy from which others were based, if it is the earliest copy discovered.

Apr 29, 2009 6:13:30 GMT Eternal Winter said:

Logic and reason should always override faith if you ever hope to you have a state or country free of fascism. Remember: Think for yourself, question authority.

logic gives you the reason to do something while faith gives you the strength.

Apr 29, 2009 6:13:30 GMT Eternal Winter said:

You would have to judge that from an individual basis regardless of religion because mood and emotion are derived from synapses in the brain which control seritonin levels. An imbalance in these chemicals makes you feel depressed. Last time I checked, religion of any kind was not a permanent cure to depression or angst, not to mention I've met my fair share of Christians who are just as happy with god as they are without Him.

It's the other way around!
Desires are Illusions and create mental imbalances which result in depression. If desires are eliminated, mood fluctuations will be history.

Apr 29, 2009 6:13:30 GMT Eternal Winter said:

religion is just an opiate for the masses, making control that much easier when people fear that they are going to burn in hell if they happen to do anything deemed "immoral" by their god.

You can either live in fear forever or you can use logic and reason to derive truth from this physical realm. Everything beyond emperical data is subjective and isn't worth an argument at all.

Fear is another emotion that is dependent on desires, once desire is eliminated, fear cannot exist.

[Eternal Winter]

Morality is distorted by those in power who sway the minds of society

Morality - conformity to the rules of "right" conduct

Those in power say what is wrong or right so no distortion is needed.

logic gives you the reason to do something while faith gives you the strength.

I'm sorry but you cannot say that faith can give you the strength to carry out a reason. That is what will is for you which you can argue is due to faith but will should not be confused with faith. Will gives you the strength to do something, where that will comes from is a different story.

I can be easily motivated through other means than faith to carry out an act.

It's the other way around!
Desires are Illusions and create mental imbalances which result in depression. If desires are eliminated, mood fluctuations will be history.

If your assumption was true, and that we all were emotionless and acted robotically, we could still become depressed as any human can find any reason to be. In fact, the lack of desire would ultimately drive one to become depressed as there would be no purpose to life at that point.

Desires are only a small portion that lead to people becoming depressed but do not represent the whole. Also how are desires illusions? If I desire a cake, does that make a cake an illusion? Or is my want for one an illusion? I do not quite understand.

Fear is another emotion that is dependent on desires, once desire is eliminated, fear cannot exist.

I don't see how fear could even be closely related to desire. If i desired something, why would I be afraid of it? Also eliminating desire does not remove fear at all. If I were afraid of heights, does that mean I desire heights? Your speech about fear and desire quite honestly don't make much sense. I know it has something to do about Star Wars or whatever but honestly there is no logical step between fear and desire, not to mention I didn't say anything about fear in my entire arguement lol.

I'm pretty confused now.

[Ne0]

Apr 30, 2009 5:21:14 GMT Eternal Winter said:

Morality - conformity to the rules of "right" conduct

Those in power say what is wrong or right so no distortion is needed.

Those in power make the laws. They can't change the original words written in ancient Books, but they do try to distort the meanings behind those words.

In the current world, there are both illegal ethics and unethical laws
Example of illegal ethics: posting a movie on the internet to share it with your online friends. (generosity violates copyright laws)
Example of unethical laws: in some countries, anal rape is legalized. (lust declared lawful)

Apr 30, 2009 5:21:14 GMT Eternal Winter said:

I'm sorry but you cannot say that faith can give you the strength to carry out a reason. That is what will is for you which you can argue is due to faith but will should not be confused with faith. Will gives you the strength to do something, where that will comes from is a different story.

I can be easily motivated through other means than faith to carry out an act.

This "faith" does not have to be belief in god or religion, it can also be belief in a person or object. Without that "trust" no amount of reasoning can make a human do anything.
An example of something you "trust" could be the Communist Manifesto.

Apr 30, 2009 5:21:14 GMT Eternal Winter said:

If your assumption was true, and that we all were emotionless and acted robotically, we could still become depressed as any human can find any reason to be. In fact, the lack of desire would ultimately drive one to become depressed as there would be no purpose to life at that point.

sorry, I meant once desires are seen as illusions, the malevolent emotions and desires will be eliminated;
Not void a person of any emotions.

Apr 30, 2009 5:21:14 GMT Eternal Winter said:

Desires are only a small portion that lead to people becoming depressed but do not represent the whole. Also how are desires illusions? If I desire a cake, does that make a cake an illusion? Or is my want for one an illusion? I do not quite understand.

Desires get created, 'desire' gets strong, 'desire' do not get satisfied, person gets depressed or angry(depends on psychology that affects brain chemistry). The more intense the 'desire', the stronger the person is entangled in the illusion.
If you crave for a cake, then it is a confirmed illusion.

Apr 30, 2009 5:21:14 GMT Eternal Winter said:

I don't see how fear could even be closely related to desire. If i desired something, why would I be afraid of it? Also eliminating desire does not remove fear at all. If I were afraid of heights, does that mean I desire heights? Your speech about fear and desire quite honestly don't make much sense. I know it has something to do about Star Wars or whatever but honestly there is no logical step between fear and desire, not to mention I didn't say anything about fear in my entire arguement lol.

Desires cause humans to want things. Once that 'desire' is strong enough, the respective person starts feeling the "fear of loss". The 'desire' could be to go to heaven, or spend the rest of the life with spouse/love.
Once desires are seen as illusions, the 'desires' will never get strong enough to 'create' the fear of loss.
If you are afraid of heights, you fear the loss of your life by falling and thus have a strong 'desire' to not die in that fashion.

Yes, Star Wars third movie made a perfect fictional example of the relationship between desire and dark emotions

[Duncomrade]

Are you Buddhist, Ne0?

[Ne0]

I am Hindu